Is there more to this game than "Achievement Whoring"? - Page 2 - Guild Wars Forums

Voodoo Rage · Nov 03, 2010, 04:58 PM // 16:58

If you are planning on playing a lot with other players, you need to develop your skill set, capturing more elites skills and trying out various builds that fit your playing style. If you plan on playing alone, you probably need to go over to Nightfall and pick up some heroes and start working on getting them developed with good synergy with your own build. As much as it is fashionable to hate on heroes, it has indeed become a pretty important part of the game.

Xman · Nov 03, 2010, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Alright I am no where near the level that most of these members are at. I'mm not talking about the experience bar in the corner of your screen. I'm talking about having my heroes all runed out with elite skills on all of them. Not to mention that I haven't even beaten all the campaigns, have every pve skill unlocked, or know what every skill does at a glance. When you can and have done all of that then you are good at the game.

Also, the gw equivalent to high end gear are things like the Bone Dragon Staff, Obsidian Armor, and other such hig end items that work the same as any other weapon, but they are rare and/or expensive to obtain.

gremlin · Nov 03, 2010, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Not to put you off Guild Wars but if you do decide that this game isn't for you why not try LOTR online they just this minute emailed me the details.

Take a look might be your thing, then check out GW2 when it comes out that might suit you better.

I know its off topic for the forums just trying to help out a fellow gamer find a game he might like.

**cosyfiep** · Nov 03, 2010, 07:02 PM // 19:02

ok, so you bought your dream car, got it detailed, got your shades and driving gloves---are you just going to let your car SIT in the garage???

This game is about PLAYING not acquiring stuff (ok some people think it is)....but its about skill, learning more and actually doing missions and quest to become even better

though you can just let your shiny new car sit in your driveway I guess....I am taking mine for a drive!!!

Skyy High · Nov 03, 2010, 07:03 PM // 19:03

It's worth pointing out that your character is not, in fact, as strong as he can possibly get. You have one elite (a bad one, at that), and only a handful of skills, mostly (I'm guessing) in fire magic. You haven't hit a wall in your character progression yet. Even after you do hit a wall in your character's progression, you still have a long way to go in your personal progression (ie, your skill at the game). No, it's not a never-ending treadmill. There are other games if you want that.

KingCrab · Nov 03, 2010, 08:08 PM // 20:08

There is one way of gaining power you may not have heard of. There are PvE skills which depend on your rank in various titles.

1. Every class has a sunspear skill (in Nightfall) which goes up as you acquire sunspear points. It's not hard to max your sunspear rank though.

2. Every character (regardless of class) has a number of skills in the four EotN titles. These start powerful and get even more powerful as you increase your rank in four titles. These titles take a bit longer to max.

3. Every class has a lux/kur skill in factions depending on your lux/kur title. This title is very time consuming to raise.

So getting these skills maxed does make a noticeable difference and adds to the power of your character. Maybe this is the kind of thing you would be interested in working towards?

rho · Nov 03, 2010, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Think of Guild Wars as being more like Super Mario. If you're playing Mario it's easy to go and get yourself a fire flower and hitch a ride on Yoshi, and that pretty much finishes things as far as character development goes. The game is still far from over, though, because it's not about what Mario can do; it's about what you can do as a player.

It may still not be the right game for you, but if you think of it in those terms rather than in comparison with WoW, then you're probably going to better be able to appreciate its strong points.

Yawgmoth · Nov 03, 2010, 09:17 PM // 21:17

I feel what you feel, the gear system and character development are pretty much terrible in GW and the coolest thing to happen to the game in this aspect was apparently an "unintended feature" (an event mini dungeon with lots of special drops possible, also functionally unique, thanks to an odd parameter in the drop generation algorithm)... but still I've managed to keep playing it for 6 years (since beta), and GW is still unmatched by no other game as a whole.

So here's how I managed to enjoy even the weakest aspects of the game over the years::

Progression in GW is mostly horizontal - you don't necessarily become strictly more powerful, but you gain versatility, a great variety of options. Character effectiveness depends mainly on the build - the selection of 8 skills. There are HUGE amounts of skills in the game and it will take some time before you get a large amount of them. It's well worth it to experiment playing with many of them, especially the Elites, and building around them. Different builds are better for different tasks, so having more choices makes your character better.

If you want to gain actual POWER above level 20 there's the Eye of the North expansion - there is a bunch of PvE only skills to be learned there, they're often stronger than regular skills, and their power depends on one of 4 title tracks. Think of it as levelling past level 20 - you aren't 100% powerful without max rank of those titles. Even in Factions and Nightfall there are also a couple powerful PvE-only skills for each profession, also depending on a title (Kurzick/Luxon/Sunspear/Lightbringer).

Now the gear.
If you just like me like to improve your character's efficiency instead of just fancy looks and love to be able to find something that will be an actual functional improvement, GW is very very disappointing but there's still a little something to do, if you care about efficiency gains like 1% or 0.1% or smaller.

First - each character has 4 weapon swap slots, used to switch to different weapons (and/or shields) quickly during combat (experienced players even swap them straight from inventory). Utilizing all of them does make your more powerful/efficient, although the differences are barely noticable by an average player in PvE (they matter in PvP mostly).

For a caster, the weapon sets you would want to have are:
1. Efficient casting set - weapons with Haves Casting time and Halves Recharge time mods, often it's a focus+wand combination (40/40) or a staff.
2. Enchanting set - utilizing the "Enchantments last 20% longer" mod which is by far the single most impactful modifier to be found on any weapon (if you use enchantments). For some builds the efficient casting is also enchanting.
3. High energy set (emergency set) - 1 or 2 weapons with additional +15energy that comes at a cost of
4. Defensive set - using a Shield (yes, you can use a shield even if you don't meet the requirements of it, you will gain 8 armor and FULL benefit of it's mods). If you build a collection of items to use, the largest part of them will likely be shields, so you have access to shields that protect you better against the threats you're about to face (most important is the +10 Armor vs specific damage types mod, but others can also be situationally better)

That's the basics, if you got that covered, all that's left is perfecting it so it fits the best your build and playstyle. While the gains are negligibly small, if you want still to keep improving, in some cases an improvement may come from a very rare item that has an unusual mod combination (not possible to replicate by just modding a clean one), or from using items with very low requirements. Finding those can be very hard, and often expensive.

Oh and after all, if you crave for real POWER, the highest individual power gains in this game come from Consumable items - you can use as many different ones as you want and their effects will add up, and the power gains will be 100x greater than what all the tinkering with gear sets will give you. With 10+ different ones active you're more powerful than a hypothetical level 30 character would be.

This was all about your individual character's progression and improvements past level 20. GW is a team-based game so there's much to be gained from perfecting your heroes aswell (can't rely on other people for most things). And then there are a HUGE TON of challenges in the game that will keep you busy, even with the rewards being mostly miserable "more of the same" items and pure achievement (nonfunctional) titles.

Nov 03, 2010, 07:02 PM // 19:02	#24
cosyfiep are we there yet? Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: in a land far far away Guild: guild? I am supposed to have a guild? Profession: Rt/	ok, so you bought your dream car, got it detailed, got your shades and driving gloves---are you just going to let your car SIT in the garage??? This game is about PLAYING not acquiring stuff (ok some people think it is)....but its about skill, learning more and actually doing missions and quest to become even better though you can just let your shiny new car sit in your driveway I guess....I am taking mine for a drive!!! __________________ where is the 'all you can eat' cookie bar?

Nov 03, 2010, 04:58 PM // 16:58	#21
Voodoo Rage Desert Nomad Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Sacramento, CA Guild: Geezers Profession: R/	If you are planning on playing a lot with other players, you need to develop your skill set, capturing more elites skills and trying out various builds that fit your playing style. If you plan on playing alone, you probably need to go over to Nightfall and pick up some heroes and start working on getting them developed with good synergy with your own build. As much as it is fashionable to hate on heroes, it has indeed become a pretty important part of the game.

Nov 03, 2010, 05:50 PM // 17:50	#22
Xman Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Sep 2010 Profession: A/	Alright I am no where near the level that most of these members are at. I'mm not talking about the experience bar in the corner of your screen. I'm talking about having my heroes all runed out with elite skills on all of them. Not to mention that I haven't even beaten all the campaigns, have every pve skill unlocked, or know what every skill does at a glance. When you can and have done all of that then you are good at the game. Also, the gw equivalent to high end gear are things like the Bone Dragon Staff, Obsidian Armor, and other such hig end items that work the same as any other weapon, but they are rare and/or expensive to obtain.

Nov 03, 2010, 06:26 PM // 18:26	#23
gremlin Furnace Stoker Join Date: Oct 2006 Guild: GWAR Profession: Me/Mo	Not to put you off Guild Wars but if you do decide that this game isn't for you why not try LOTR online they just this minute emailed me the details. Take a look might be your thing, then check out GW2 when it comes out that might suit you better. I know its off topic for the forums just trying to help out a fellow gamer find a game he might like.

Nov 03, 2010, 07:03 PM // 19:03	#25
Skyy High Furnace Stoker Join Date: May 2006 Profession: R/	It's worth pointing out that your character is not, in fact, as strong as he can possibly get. You have one elite (a bad one, at that), and only a handful of skills, mostly (I'm guessing) in fire magic. You haven't hit a wall in your character progression yet. Even after you do hit a wall in your character's progression, you still have a long way to go in your personal progression (ie, your skill at the game). No, it's not a never-ending treadmill. There are other games if you want that.

Nov 03, 2010, 08:08 PM // 20:08	#26
KingCrab Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Jul 2009 Profession: W/E	There is one way of gaining power you may not have heard of. There are PvE skills which depend on your rank in various titles. 1. Every class has a sunspear skill (in Nightfall) which goes up as you acquire sunspear points. It's not hard to max your sunspear rank though. 2. Every character (regardless of class) has a number of skills in the four EotN titles. These start powerful and get even more powerful as you increase your rank in four titles. These titles take a bit longer to max. 3. Every class has a lux/kur skill in factions depending on your lux/kur title. This title is very time consuming to raise. So getting these skills maxed does make a noticeable difference and adds to the power of your character. Maybe this is the kind of thing you would be interested in working towards?

Nov 03, 2010, 08:49 PM // 20:49	#27
rho Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Aug 2008	Think of Guild Wars as being more like Super Mario. If you're playing Mario it's easy to go and get yourself a fire flower and hitch a ride on Yoshi, and that pretty much finishes things as far as character development goes. The game is still far from over, though, because it's not about what Mario can do; it's about what you can do as a player. It may still not be the right game for you, but if you think of it in those terms rather than in comparison with WoW, then you're probably going to better be able to appreciate its strong points.

Nov 03, 2010, 09:17 PM // 21:17	#28
Yawgmoth Furnace Stoker Join Date: Apr 2005	I feel what you feel, the gear system and character development are pretty much terrible in GW and the coolest thing to happen to the game in this aspect was apparently an "unintended feature" (an event mini dungeon with lots of special drops possible, also functionally unique, thanks to an odd parameter in the drop generation algorithm)... but still I've managed to keep playing it for 6 years (since beta), and GW is still unmatched by no other game as a whole. So here's how I managed to enjoy even the weakest aspects of the game over the years:: Progression in GW is mostly horizontal - you don't necessarily become strictly more powerful, but you gain versatility, a great variety of options. Character effectiveness depends mainly on the build - the selection of 8 skills. There are HUGE amounts of skills in the game and it will take some time before you get a large amount of them. It's well worth it to experiment playing with many of them, especially the Elites, and building around them. Different builds are better for different tasks, so having more choices makes your character better. If you want to gain actual POWER above level 20 there's the Eye of the North expansion - there is a bunch of PvE only skills to be learned there, they're often stronger than regular skills, and their power depends on one of 4 title tracks. Think of it as levelling past level 20 - you aren't 100% powerful without max rank of those titles. Even in Factions and Nightfall there are also a couple powerful PvE-only skills for each profession, also depending on a title (Kurzick/Luxon/Sunspear/Lightbringer). Now the gear. If you just like me like to improve your character's efficiency instead of just fancy looks and love to be able to find something that will be an actual functional improvement, GW is very very disappointing but there's still a little something to do, if you care about efficiency gains like 1% or 0.1% or smaller. First - each character has 4 weapon swap slots, used to switch to different weapons (and/or shields) quickly during combat (experienced players even swap them straight from inventory). Utilizing all of them does make your more powerful/efficient, although the differences are barely noticable by an average player in PvE (they matter in PvP mostly). For a caster, the weapon sets you would want to have are: 1. Efficient casting set - weapons with Haves Casting time and Halves Recharge time mods, often it's a focus+wand combination (40/40) or a staff. 2. Enchanting set - utilizing the "Enchantments last 20% longer" mod which is by far the single most impactful modifier to be found on any weapon (if you use enchantments). For some builds the efficient casting is also enchanting. 3. High energy set (emergency set) - 1 or 2 weapons with additional +15energy that comes at a cost of 4. Defensive set - using a Shield (yes, you can use a shield even if you don't meet the requirements of it, you will gain 8 armor and FULL benefit of it's mods). If you build a collection of items to use, the largest part of them will likely be shields, so you have access to shields that protect you better against the threats you're about to face (most important is the +10 Armor vs specific damage types mod, but others can also be situationally better) That's the basics, if you got that covered, all that's left is perfecting it so it fits the best your build and playstyle. While the gains are negligibly small, if you want still to keep improving, in some cases an improvement may come from a very rare item that has an unusual mod combination (not possible to replicate by just modding a clean one), or from using items with very low requirements. Finding those can be very hard, and often expensive. Oh and after all, if you crave for real POWER, the highest individual power gains in this game come from Consumable items - you can use as many different ones as you want and their effects will add up, and the power gains will be 100x greater than what all the tinkering with gear sets will give you. With 10+ different ones active you're more powerful than a hypothetical level 30 character would be. This was all about your individual character's progression and improvements past level 20. GW is a team-based game so there's much to be gained from perfecting your heroes aswell (can't rely on other people for most things). And then there are a HUGE TON of challenges in the game that will keep you busy, even with the rewards being mostly miserable "more of the same" items and pure achievement (nonfunctional) titles.